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This Aint Your Show - Admiral James T. - Did It Hurt When I Passed By

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Community Showcase More. Follow TV Tropes. You need to login to do this. Get Known if you don't have an account. General Order Twelve. Why did Kirk decide to be an idiot This Aint Your Show - Admiral James T.

- Did It Hurt When I Passed By not raise shields when they first encountered the Reliant? Khan and Joachim This Aint Your Show - Admiral James T. - Did It Hurt When I Passed By made a point of being amazed that he didn't raise shields. Presumably, this is what Saavik was going to tell Kirk to do before Spock interrupted her, especially considering Kirk later told her "you can go right on quoting regulations".

Joachim is amazed. Khan isn't surprised at all, since they are, after all, a vessel from the same Federation. Also note the regulation is never quoted and may not have been shields-up, but possibly just a yellow alert, more cautious posture, etc. Yellow Alert raises the shields but does not charge the phaser banks like red alert. But in the film, you can see Sulu I believe activating the phasers at the activation of the yellow alert. It would seem like an policy odd to acknowledge that there was enough of a threat to charge the weapons, but not enough to activate shields.

I think it was supposed to be an example of Kirk's humanity i. It's a shame, too - it's not as if he has anything to gain by NOT raising the shields, why take the risk? Reliant and Enterprise are both Federation ships. Kirk had no reason to believe Reliant had been hijacked, and he had a ship full of rookies.

Except Kirk knew that Commander, Reliant had just lied to him. It only took Spock seconds to confirm that the ship's "chambers coil"— the component that they claimed was damaged—was working properly. Whoever was in command of Reliant lied to a Starfleet flag officer, was not responding correctly to Enterprise's challenges, and was avoiding visual communication.

Factor in the frantic, agitated call from Carol Marcus the leader of the project Reliant was attached tothe fact that she was inexplicably cut off mid-call, and Kirk not being able to call her back, and it seems like Kirk missed several huge red flags. I would say that whatever the state of the Reliantthe fact remains that the Reliant did raise her shields.

This basically means one of three things: 1. The Reliant intends to attack. The Reliant is responding to some threat the Enterprise is not aware of, possibly one that could threaten both ships. In any of these cases, raising the shields is fully justified as a precautionary measure. The Reliant only raised shields just before attacking, and Kirk did give the order to raise the shields as soon as Spock reported the Reliant was doing so - it was just too late.

Actually, it was even worse than that. Kirk didn't order shields up until Reliant had actually locked its weapons on Enterprise. Just having re-watched the scene in question and Kirk does order a defensive posture -he calls for a general alert and has "defense screens" energized we even have a spiffy graphic showing that something is reinforcing the hull compartments - even before the Reliant lies about the coils.

There is no indication at that point the Reliant is intending to attack, but Kirk is already taking precautions and having Spock scan the ship for explanations. Then immediately before attack Khan raises shields and locks phasers, at which point Kirk orders exactly the same.

In hindsight it is a miscalculation, Tax, Tax, Tax - Spend, Spend, Spend - SS-20 - More Government Now his actions were a judgement call based on available evidence and it wasn't as unreasonable as is made out.

He's not sitting around doing nothing, he is taking a defensive posture and looking for explanations. Because he made, by his own admission a few minutes later, a catastrophic moronic total newbie mistake. Maybe he'd been off the bridge and driving a desk too long and lost his old instincts for when a situation has gone bad, maybe he was just having an off day. The most professional people make mistakes from time to time, and in certain professions soldier, heart surgeon, airline pilot, etc those mistakes can lead to a lot of people getting killed needlessly.

The actual reg is "General Order On the approach of any vessel, when communications have not been established Saavik was interrupted before completing the quotation of the order but it is The Winner - Leviticus - The Best Of Leviticus that the ship is supposed to go to yellow alert when faced with a non-communicative ship.

The novel "Rules of Engagement" confirms this, and I Sho Like Groovin With Ya - Johnny Bristol - The Best Of Johnny Bristol states that a Starfleet vessel is not to fire upon a potential hostile unless fired upon first.

Fair enough, but the Enterprise has shields for a reason On that note, what was Khan thinking? It's repeatedly pointed out that the Reliant is a glorified science vessel, a light cruiser, while the Enterprise is a ship of the line which could smash it without breaking sweat if Kirk had raised shields.

So what was Khan's plan? Call up and hope Kirk doesn't notice his old crewman acting like a robot? Open fire and make like a bug on a windscreen? Sit there and let Kirk get suspicious? C'mon, Khan, you're meant to be a super-genius!

His plan was to take Kirk by surprise, disable the Enterprisethen call him and gloat before destroying him. Which nearly worked, except for Kirk's quick thinking and Khan's eagerness to get the Genesis Device.

Khan didn't know Starfleet ships could log into other ship's computers and screw with their system; if he had known that or thought to ask one of his brainwashed slaves he would have won the day easily. Besides, even ignoring that I think you're overstating the case— the Reliant seems more than able to hold its own, even when both she and Enterprise are equally damaged and under-manned.

It's not like Kirk was expecting him to suddenly turn up. Khan couldn't have done the former of those — Chekov and Terrell were imprisoned on Regula One by that point. Also, remember that, as Spock puts it, Khan is using "two-dimensional thinking," i.

From this we can infer that Khan, whatever his strengths, is no tactician. Khan is also blinded by his desire for revenge, in keeping with the Moby-Dick theme of the movie, which would have further dulled his instincts. Khan's a tactician, his problem is that all his tactical experience is in terrestrial warfare. He's navigating like he's on an ocean because he probably has experience in aquatic combat.

Take a great tactician whose specialty is, say, tanks in the desert, and then put him in charge of This Aint Your Show - Admiral James T. - Did It Hurt When I Passed By aircraft carrier group, he'd probably flounder a fair bit too.

Moreso on the terrestrial i. Never did understand Spock's quote as a kid, until years later when I realized he literally meant two-dimensional. According to Memory Alpha specifications of the USS Reliantit Lägenhetsfest - Rekordelig - Lägenhetsfest six dual phaser banks and twin forward and aft torpedo launchers.

Not exactly under-equipped when it comes to weaponry. Khan probably assumed he could match wits tactically with Kirk, or give him a good run for his money at least. He wanted to hurt Kirk - and he succeeded. I think Kirk's failure with raising shields was done on purpose. Throughout the whole film, Kirk is mourning over how much he's past his prime as a commanding officer.

It's this failure, and realizing Khan was responsible, that makes him pull himself together to stop Тырлы Пырлы - Красная Плесень - Бульбец Титанику (Золотая Коллекция Том 8) and his followers for good. Also, we never find out what precisely General Order 12 says.

For all anyone knows, it might've said something along the lines of "the ship should go to Yellow Alert, and ready ship's defense systems.

The Reliant is a Miranda class starship. The Memory Alpha article understates the actual abilities and role of the class. Various sources and games clearly show the class rated as a medium cruiser. In a straight fight the Enterprise has the advantage, but Khan could reasonably assume that the element of surprise would make the odds at least even. If you think about it, the real question is why this mini-tank of a starship is running around scanning lifeless planets?

It seems like a job better suited for a dedicated science vessel like USS Grissom. That's likely why they developed the Oberth -class in the first place. They could simply have had none available at the time. The USS Reliant seemed to be attached to Regula One, where Genesis was being tested, and due to the nature of the project Starfleet wanted This Aint Your Show - Admiral James T. - Did It Hurt When I Passed By ship that wouldn't draw attention like the Constitution class but could actually defend the project—and based on what we saw in Star Trek III, the Oberth class had no chance of doing that.

The real reason we didn't see an Oberth class is the fact that the model hadn't been built yet. Didn't help that ILM allegedly hated the idea of doing a Connie-on-Connie battle because the TMP Enterprise was hard to use—not to mention Nicholas Meyer decided that it would be hard to tell the ships apart.

The Nova -class, Starfleet's state-of-the-art science ship of a century later has a top speed of warp factor 6, as established in VOY : Equinox. Since numerous Mirandas take part in fleet operations in DS9 —also set around a century later—they would have to have a high enough cruising speed to keep up with that era's capitol ships.

Project Genesis required a ship fast enough to survey several planets in several different star systems in a reasonable amount of time, and that's something an Oberth probably couldn't do. In fairness, the primary mission of Starfleet has always been scientific exploration.

That's why in Star Trek VI, the battleship Excelsior has been busy cataloguing gaseous spacial anomalies for an extended period of time, and the battlecruiser Enterprise has been seen handling so many minor science missions throughout TOS, rather than defending Federation territory.

Starfleet seems to seek a balance between scientific endeavors and exploration, and deterrence. So they built Jack-of-All-Stats ships that can do the peaceful scholar routine, and quickly retask to dealing with uppity Klingon and Romulan interlopers. Their dealings with Cannibal Corpse* - Ace Ventura: Pet Detective (Motion Picture Soundtrack) races similarly is heavily laden with carrot-and-stick politics, where they offer peace and enlightenment, from the bridges of their heavily armed starships, allowing them to negotiate from a strong position.

Also of note is that while Starfleet ships seem to pack far more weapons than, say, Klingon battlecruisers or Romulan warbirds, both of those races tend to pack their weapons in the front for attacking, while the Starfleet ships have numerous weapons laid out to cover their flanks, allowing them to be much more defensive in tactics and to fire cool broadsides as if they were in a Horatio Hornblower IN SPACE ヴァチカンワルツ - みみうなぎ* - 牛乳のべろべろ, which was entirely what they had in mind making this movie.

This Aint Your Show - Admiral James T. - Did It Hurt When I Passed By this movie and it's prequel involve the same early plot point, namely having a promoted and thus usually desk-bound Admiral Kirk commandeering Enterprise in response to an emergency. In the first movie, he justifies doing so to her new Captain Decker by invoking his greater experience - but it quickly becomes apparent that Kirk's technical knowledge is behind the times, and it takes Decker's intervention to save the ship when Kirk pushes too hard too soon.

Later on, Kirk's experience with the non-technical aspects of command does pay off when he takes a non-aggressive approach towards V'Ger over Decker's objections. This time round, Kirk's experience it being fair to assume that in approximately 30 years of spacefaring, he'd probably had more than a few encounters with approaching Federation ships which turned out to have a benign explanation works against him, with catastrophic results.

And yes, in a reversal of the previous movie's setup, Kirk exploits his technical know-how to get out of the peril in which his leadership mistake has placed the ship.

Zoo (Yoshiyuki Ota Remix) - Go Satta - Zoo (File) doesn't derive any comfort from this, however. In short, yes, it is a bone-headed mistake, and presented as exactly that.


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